Hi, it's Chris Watkin here, and I am with Estate Agency Royalty Mr Peter Knight.
Thanks for coming down to London to see me Peter. What I'd like to do is talk about The Property Academy's
Best Estate Agent Guide, how it is measured, judged, the good things, the bad things,
your Homemovers’ Survey and about what is happening in the UK Estate & Letting Agency industry.
What we can do to help the boys and girls out there in Estate Agency land?
Firstly, for those people who have been living in a cave, what is the Best Estate Agency Guide?
Peter: First of all, thank you for having me here Chris. It is now our 3rd year of doing the Best Estate Agency Guide
and I remember Iain Kennedy of Rightmove saying to me, when we first launched, this will take you 3 years to get it right,
and crickey he was bang on! It has taken us 3 years to evolve it and to move it to where it is now
and I am really happy about it now.
I hope that your viewers and everybody else in the industry will be too.
What we have done once again is assessed every single listing that has appeared on Rightmove over a 6-8 month period
so that's about 1 milliion+ listings on Rightmove at any one time.
We then measure their performance on what we call the "same patch".
So if you take Grantham, for instance, and there are a number of estate agents in Grantham,
we don't take Grantham as a patch, we take each estate agency branch in the area,
We measure their patch by methodology, whereby, whenever they have listed a property for sale or to let - that's their patch.
So, if you had an agency in Grantham who covered a wider area, their listings would be compared against a wider patch.
If you had a branch that was covering a smaller area,
because it is part of a network of 3 or 4 offices in the same proximity, their patches are narrower.
We measure the performance of those listings over a 6-8 month period,
basically, to ask “did they sell or let”, “how well were the properties marketed”,
we measure that by the number of property views, click-throughs,
the photographs, floorplan, etc and then, 3 billion pieces of data (so it is a rather large spreadsheet)
enables us to then determine which are the best-performing branches. From that stage, we then aggregate the branch scores to create and find the top agencies.
Chris: How many measures have you got in there?
Peter: In total there are almost 50 measurements, 32 of them are on the mystery shop and 18 are on the data.
This exercise is done Chris, completely FREE of charge.
Rightmove account managers will be able to share all of the findings in terms of the data assessment for FREE with all of their estate agency members.
We, at The Property Academy, will have the answers to the mystery shop which we have carried out.
Estate agents can find out how they've done, where they can improve,
and we can all improve, let's be blunt here, and also, of course,
they have the opportunity to congratulate their team members when they have done an exceptional job.
There have been many examples of agents delivering exceptional performance
and it's those that have ended up winning a Best Estate Agent Guide Award.
Chris: So, 17 or 18 Rightmove datapoints - how did you judge them? What were the metrics?
Peter: The principal ones were - Did it sell or let? Yes or no?
Did it come back onto the market? In other words, did it fall through?
How long was it marketed for? During that period of time, how many page views did it get? How many click-throughs did it get?
We know from all of our consumer research what customers feel is important to them;
These are the main things – the quality of the marketing of their property,
The numbers of photographs, floorplans etc (which also have a bearing on click-through rate)
and of course, that also has a bearing in terms of its positioning in the market in terms of pricing.
If it is under-priced or over-priced, it will have an impact in terms of the number of views and so on.
Then we have the mystery shop,we have 32 different metrics to measure.
Chris: What does the mystery shop look like?
Peter: There were 4 things that we hoped to identify based on our Homemovers’ trends survey, that we've been doing for 10 years.
On that point, this year we are actually publishing a summary of the 10 years combined insights and the changes over that time.
We have engaged with a professional research company to assist us with that analysis,
because it is pretty huge; we assess 5000 sellers, 5000 landlords and 5000 tenants each year;
So, we have well over 100,000 pieces of data.
Chris: I've got back copies that I have kept and it is amazing how not much has changed but certain things have evolved.
Peter: Absolutely, you are right, there are certain principles that are constant, we still measure them though,
and other things that vary, and I'm afraid one of those things
(that we shall touch on in another video)
is fee levels charged. So what people tell us is that marketing is really important because that makes them feel they will get the result that they want,
which I think is a reasonable
conclusion, and the second thing they tell us is whether they can trust the agent or not, do they like them?
Now the issue we had was that if you ask somebody how you measure likability or trust someone,
the chances are that they will not be able to tell you.
Chris: It isn't a number is it?
Peter: It's not, and we wanted to make this very much based upon data rather than subjective opinion.
So, what we drilled it down to when we asked other questions of these people actively selling or letting their property
was 4 key things that make up together likability and trust:
PROFESSIONALISM & CURTESY. LISTENING & UNDERSTANDING.
KNOWLEDGE & INFORMATION. RESPONSIVENESS.
Those were the 4 ingredients that through our surveys we were able to identify that added up to likeability and trustworthiness.
In our mystery shops for the BEAG we set a series of questions that were ‘yes/no’ answers,
so I shall give you an example: Responsiveness, let's take that one...
Was the phone answered - yes or no? Was the email answered - yes or no?
Chris: So how many phone calls or emails did every agent get?
Peter: Well there are 20,000 in total that we carried out, each agent received one call per branch for sales, one call per branch for lettings,
one web enquiry for sales and one for lettings. Chris: Was the enquirer being a buyer or vendor or landlord or tenant?
Peter: Principally as a buyer and a tenant,
you'll know from our previous conversations that I believe the customer is 4-dimensional
and I do not believe they should be treated differently because they are coming to an agent as a tenant or as a landlord,
they could be one and the same. They often are! And what was staggering once again,
and I've got these stats for you, hot off the press, we found that there were some shocking responses.
Sales calls - 14% went unanswered. All these calls were made during business hours Monday to Friday.
On the lettings side - it was the same 15% went unanswered.
In terms of web enquiries - 27% on sales were not answered within a day (that is better than last year which was 52%)
although on lettings - 35 %. Here is the interesting thing, although our mystery shoppers posed as buyers
they also if somebody asked, would say they had a property to sell or rent.
In other words, their scripts allowed for the conversation and it was down to the agent to ask the question rather than the information just being volunteered.
Chris: So the buyers were ringing up and potentially had a property to sell
and you are going to announce the number at the EA Masters 2019
of the number of agents who did not even ask the question...
Peter: There is another number that I am happy to share with you,
Chris. Not only did the buyers pose as potential sellers as well, and therefore
there was the opportunity for the agent to ask the question to say "have you got a property to sell?"
"would you like a valuation from us?" but one stat I will share with you is they were enquiring about specific properties
and they were waiting to be asked to view the property and had they done so they would have actually made an appointment
(and subsequently, we'd have cancelled this)
what if I told you that 27% on sales calls, were not even asked if they wanted to book a viewing appointment.
Chris: Let's be frank here, there is a lot of people complaining about Rightmove
at the moment and their costs and I've gone on record to say I think they are good value for money,
but if agents aren't actually a) answering the phone calls b) asking for a valuation
c) or asking for a viewing appointment - no wonder they are not doing very well.
Peter: Well let’s put it into context, the best ones do all of those things exceptionally well.
Chris: But this is basic stuff! Peter: It is and that is why I keep saying to people when they ask me
"What have you got to do to win?" the answer is very simple, do the ordinary things extraordinarily well.
Just do the basics brilliantly well.
And by the way, the basics are good for the customer, they are also good for the agent.
The customer is wanting to be looked after. They want a service.
Chris: Why do you think that we as an industry are not very good at it? I am not talking about the best agents,
I am talking about the vanilla agents. Peter: Well I think it is a combination of a few things, so
1) I think that we employ people, quite frankly, who are not fit for purpose in this industry in too many places
and sometimes the culture that we create for those people
around methods of remuneration etc are not actually fostering service, they actually
cultivate a climate of mediocracy and if someone is not prepared to transact with them straight
away they are dismissed as time-wasters, tyre-kickers and so on. 2) A lack of proper systems and
processes and those 2 things combined add up to massive variations in service. So there
are certain brands with more than one branch some with a substantial number, where the
service from one branch is quite extraordinarily brilliant, best in class, but you call another
branch in the same company and it is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum and
maybe a third branch somewhere in the middle. The very best firms and I have to say, one
of the things that have come out of our analysis Chris is, the bigger the firm gets on average,
the poorer its average performance. Chris: Bigger the branch or bigger the network? Peter:
Bigger the network. If I added up all of the scores of the single branch businesses and
averaged them out, they would score better overall that the small size band (2 - 5 branches)
and they, in turn, would perform better than the mediums (6-20) and the mediums would perform
better than the large (21+). And this has been consistent across the years we have been
doing this assessment, that the very very best businesses tend to be the single branch
businesses or the small ones, the independent estate agents. Now, there are exceptions,
and you do get some branches within big corporates who have done exceptionally well and who deliver
a phenomenal service, but I'm afraid that as a general rule of thumb the bigger the
business gets the poorer it's average performance. Chris: Why do you think that is? Peter: I
think it's the difference between ownership and proper engagement and ultimately the people
that own and run a business have a different level of commitment to those who are just
employed in the business. Chris: Do you think, apart from the odd ones, do you think that
the bigger businesses could offer as good a service as a one-man band? Peter: I do because
I think ultimately that is down to systems and processes and, in fact, they have more
resources. I mean, they should be able to manage these processes, but I fear that perhaps
their drivers are not so much a service driver, it's a commercial driver. Chris: Do you think
we are too transactional as an industry as opposed to being relationship builders for
the long term? Peter: I do on the basis that if you look at what so many traditional estate
agents market themselves as, "we provide a professional, premium service" I hear this
statement a lot, what does it actually constitute? And to my mind, things like answering the
phone during working hours and responding to an email enquiry in 24-hours that is hardly
a premium service. That is page one estate agency. And, in far too many cases it's just
not being delivered on. However, let me just set the balance right, those that do and there
are many examples we've identified the top 3% broadly speaking about 500 (approximately)
agencies in sales and in lettings that are the absolute best across the performance and
the customer service. So it's not some sort of smoke-filled room with a bunch of people
sitting around deciding who is going to win this year, it's based upon a proper assessment
of the marketplace with every single branch and every single listing. Chris: You said
the Rightmove account manager can show an agent the details of how the stats were worked
out and do you say they have access to the mystery shop. Peter: Yes, after the EA Masters
we will be releasing all of the information on the mystery shops. What we can't do is
say anything to identify an individual, so we will not share the time of the call, the
day it was made etc because that would, under GDPR responsibilities, identify data that
people have not opted-in for. What we will give is the scores, in terms of - you answered
the phone - yes/no - the goal is to help estate agents to fulfil their potential, that's our
purpose. It is to help people to fulfil their potential. And a big reason why we set this
up and a massive driver for Rightmove too, was to assist agents in raising the standards
of the service that they deliver to the consumer. So, we want to share this information with
people so that they can see for themselves how they did. They will then have an opportunity
to improve on it for next year. Chris: How do you feel about the naysayers, those that
deride what you are trying to do? Let's be frank, you are running a business and if someone
wins, they are automatically entered in the BEA Guide. They don't have to pay to be in
the guide, but if they want the stickers and the marketing pack behind it, they have to
pay. How do you feel about those doom-mongerers? Peter: There are always going to be critics
and particularly those who hide behind the fictitious pseudonyms, I don't mind engaging
with anybody on a face-to-face basis or over the phone and I have had many conversations,
and some of the criticisms have been really helpful, we have evolved things over the 3
years. The first year we got it wrong in terms of the mystery shop being 50% of the score
now it is only 20% of the score. We didn't include market share as a criterion, and we
do now. It's not as important criteria to the consumer as it is to the agent who owns
a business, but it is a factor, so we include it. We have revised the whole mystery shop
process, we used to have a question the shoppers used to be asked, "how did the agent make
you feel?" which we felt was too subjective with the numbers that we had. So we've eliminated
anything that could be subjective. So we’ve taken on board a lot of these comments and
I am not sure we have even got it 100% right yet, but we will not stop striving for 100%
and my guess is that year one we got it 80+% right and I now believe we've got it 90+%
right. We will continue to push for it, but I know we'll always get the critics. There
are going to be those who say it is just a money-making exercise, I often reply "so do
you charge for your estate agency services?" we're in business and my business is about
helping people to fulfil their potential. The big thing is though, about my business,
is you don't have to subscribe to it, you don't have to become a member of the Property
Academy, you don't have to buy a BEAG Licence, you do not have to come to the EA Masters,
it is totally their choice! Chris: You wouldn't believe how many people are saying you have
to buy a certain Rightmove subscription. Peter: When we publish the winners list, the critics
said "you only give awards to people who buy tickets" well we announced the winners (not
the shortlist) before the tickets even went on sale. Another direct response to agents
saying to us "the surprise on the day is nice if you've won" but actually if you brought
your team and you've come all the way to London and you've had a great day, yes it's expensive,
and then you don't win, it's more disappointing. Chris: So, they are only saying that you are
announcing the winners first in order to sell more tickets! Peter: Well you cannot win,
can you? Luckily, we sell out every year and therefore we don't actually need to market
in an aggressive manner, we know that people will come because we've been doing this for
20 years. Only 3 years it has been the EA Masters prior to that it was the Estate Agency
of the Year Awards. So, we have a long record if you like, of delivering the best events.
This year again we've sought to raise the bar in every single dimension and the quality
of the speakers and the workbooks we are going to be providing and the insights we are going
to share we think will be second to none. But of course, the people will be the judges
of that. Oh, and by the way, we will be live streaming it this year for FREE so if they
do not want to buy a ticket to the event they can watch it via the Rightmove Hub. For FREE!
This whole criticism it amuses me, it used to frustrate me, but now it amuses me because
every time someone comes in with a criticism we take it on board and we are in business,
ultimately, so if we don't make a profit then we can't sustain this activity. But the driver
and purpose for setting up these awards in the first place, is to redress the balance,
the media has been so critical of estate agents for so many years and it was in response to
that, that we first set up the first awards. To basically say, you know what, there are
some really good estate agents out there and they don't get recognised, and they don't
get acknowledged for what they do, and we set up the awards, principally to redress
that balance. And Chris, for the first 5 years we lost money on it, a lot of money, we almost
pulled it. We actually thought we've had a go but financially it was a significant amount
of money that we lost but we persevered with it because we knew it was the right thing
to do!